I recently read this article: School Under Fire For Allowing Churches to Feed Football Team and was interested to see what those of you who read my blog think about this. In the article, a Chattanooga, TN football coach is under fire for allowing churches to provide meals to players.
"The Freedom From Religion Foundation sent a letter to the school and are demanding the school system launch an investigation into allegations that Coach Mariakis allowed local churches to prepare pre-game meals for his football team. They also allege that the coach prayed with his team, used Bible verses in motivational speeches and on team shirts and participated in the Fellowship of Christian Athletes."
Both in Turkey and in the Azores, when we first came to the Base, there was a welcome briefing held at the chapel. Individuals are not forced to attend. They are not forced to eat. But the Chapel sponsors the meal, and the Chaplain prays before the meal.
I learned, as a teacher, a great difference between the deep South (aka "The Bible Belt") and schools in Minnesota. When I was in Kentucky, prayer was regularly performed before ball games, meals, and most school events. But in Minnesota, I was told when they hired me that praying at any point was completely against the rules.
(I was also told by a coworker that going to church was, "a bit old-fashioned, don't you think?") but that's another story.
I respect the separation of church and state. I would not want any religion forced onto my children or myself, and if Christianity can be, then another religion could be. However, I have two issues with this story. And let me preface this was saying I am not a lawyer (I know I have a few lawyers who read my blog) so feel free to politely correct me if I am wrong.
1. The first issue is that I cannot see how allowing a church to provide meals for individuals is not okay. I would imagine that if any group wanted to provide meals for children, it would be welcome at a school. You have many students who cannot afford to eat well in public schools, and I think any community would welcome meals for young men before a football game. As the churches youth group pastor was quoted as saying, “It would be interesting to see what part of the Constitution we violated by simply offering a meal to fellow Americans. These are kids from our area that we do love and we do care about.”
2. If local churches are taking turns giving meals, and another religious organization wanted to provide the meals, they should be allowed to do so. I believe the problem stems from the fact that they are in the deep south, where there is not as much diversity of religion. And therefore the free meals have to cease because of a lack of diversity.
3. The article says that a "local individual" voiced the complaint. However, I'd be interested to hear who this local individual is. If none of the athletes are concerned and none of the parents are concerned, is it something to be concerned with? And if a player voiced concern, I would imagine he'd have every right to not attend the meal.
Love to hear from you on this story! And as always, please be respectful and kind when voicing how you feel. I feel this is a place to be educated from each other, not blast each other for different ideas, and my readers almost always do a great job discussing as such!
9 comments:
So, a "Yankee" perspective. Having been born and raised in NY, I'd be SHOCKED- like bowl me over with a feather- if there was prayer in school (organized by the school- kids are free to pray if they want), the team provided t-shirts with Bible verses, etc.
If kids want to pray, no problem- we always had a group of students gather for the National Day of Prayer before school. If kids wear shirts with Bible versus, no problem. However, I think the problem would arise if these were organized by the school/teachers.
I agree with you, let whomever volunteers provide the free meals- churches, businesses, families, PTA, whomever. As long as there is no proseletizing, blatant advertising or sales pitches, etc it's fine.
However, the prayer before the game and giving out team shirts with Bible versus, I think does cross a line into being not kosher (haha!).
I think it would be a asking a lot of teenager to look at that kind of activity and expect them to join the team if he/she were not Christian.
On the whole however, I think the meals is a non-issue. The other stuff, as I said, I think does cross a line. While the welcome briefing you mention is optional, it doesn't sound like non-Christian kids had much choice- short of excluding themselves from team activities.
I think the overall problem comes down to people feeling like the church is trying to influence young people by getting to them at school. I know this is a hard comparison for many people to swallow because they support the Christian church so strongly, but imagine if a cigarette company sponsored the event. Even if very little to no cigarette references were made, we would still know that they were trying to gain the favor of kids. Further, imagine if it were Hooters! Even without the skimpy outfits, parents would not want these types of influences crossing the line into schools. Many people feel that this is a line churches should not cross as well.
It seems to mean that meals are harmless enough, but when you consider that the people handing out the meals probably also talk about a youth group and invite the kids, we need to see the whole picture which is to reach out to youth. If this is the case, then it seems to me that they are overstepping acceptable behavior for public schools.
I'm not someone to turn away a free meal myself, but I think it is wrong for a coach (who keep in mind is in a position of authority) uses his position to try to push an agenda, even in subtle ways.
Hi Wendi!
(First of all, I want you to know that I've really enjoyed checking out your blog from time to time and hearing about how life on the Azores compares to the 'Lik!)
In regards to this particular Church and State issue, I think the first two commenters summed up my own opinions quite nicely. I do, though, just want to add a first-hand example to illustrate exactly these seemingly innocuous behaviors can feel to a non-Christian.
It's interesting, really, how different perception can be depending on whether you have an "insider" or "outsider" perspective... For me, a person raised Jewish, that Incirlik newcomers' orientation was quite jarring and uncomfortable. First of all, I recall that the orientation briefing was strongly described as mandatory. We arrived at 7:30am and were talked at by all of the agencies on base until nearly 1pm (at which point I was about ready to gnaw off my own arm with hunger!). We were then told to get on a base shuttle for a tour and then lunch. I heard no mention that the lunch would be sponsored by the chapel, and, even if they mentioned it, I couldn't very well ask the shuttle to just let me out at the commissary so that I could buy my own lunch...
We arrived at the chapel annex where, before we could eat, the chaplin proceeded to talk about all chapel events, ask us to fill out a survey about our religious preferences, and then, ironically, lead a Christian prayer before we were released to get up and get food. He then came around to all of the tables asking very direct questions about whether or not we'd be attending services, which ones we might like to try, etc. It was highly, highly uncomfortable for me on a very deep level. It gave the impression (whether intended or not) that Christianity was leadership sanctioned and integral component to base life. As a new military spouse a the time and as a total newbie to that base and base life, in general, I suddenly felt extremely alienated, right out of the gate...
You see, if, at the end of our official briefing, we were told that we were free to go but that the chapel had set up an optional informational luncheon that anyone interested could go and check out, no boundaries would have been crossed. But our group, at least, was told no such thing, and so we were all a trapped audience. Children at school or official school activities are also a trapped audience under the authority of school employees or officials. Like the previous commenter said, these issues and behaviors are subtle, but that's exactly why I believe it's so, so important to be exceedingly careful to keep *all* affiliation with *any* religious organization away from public or government institutions. What might seem like a throwaway comment to someone in the fold could easily put someone else in a very awkward position, indeed...
So, that's my two cents. Just a little first-hand example to help underscore how a non-Christian kid wanting to play football at that school might have felt...
Thanks for the opportunity for discussion, Wendi!
~Mimi
Mimi, thank you for taking the time to write out such a thoughtful response. After reading what you wrote, I totally agree. When we attended the lunch, it was presented to us as "optional" but hearing it from your viewpointe and how it was presented to you, I would concur that this is not appropriate. I like to especially turn it around. If this was a Muslim Mosque, how would I feel having this presented to me.
However, I did attend a Muslim dinner and thoroughly enjoyed it when presented with the option.
A few questions for you (that you got me thinking about).
1. If it is optional, is it then okay?
2. Would it be okay in a school setting when kids might feel peer pressure to not say anything (especially in the south.)
So great to hear from you. How is your new life? Missing the 'Lik like crazy?
Sherrie, I think it would depend on how they were serving the kids. I totally see what you are saying but churches, in general, reach out to the community. How can they reach out then without "crossing the line?" Thoughts on that?
So great to hear from you!
I'm not someone to turn away a free meal myself, but I think it is wrong for a coach (who keep in mind is in a position of authority) uses his position to try to push an agenda, even in subtle ways.
Momma, I agree with you and I think you are right. The issue for me is that in the south, I wonder if any of the kids OR parents really felt uncomfortable? If all kids and all parents want to do it, is there an issue? That's what I am wondering?
Wendi, to answer your questions:
1. Is it ok if it's optional? Do you mean the issues with the school in TN or the example I raised? Really, though, I guess my answer is the same... The word "optional" is the key word, and things have to be made optional in a practical and genuine way. I think context is also a key component. Otherwise, this whole thing can be a very slippery slope... You know? Basically, I think that there is a huge difference between, say, a parent offering to be there early for a sports game to meet up with any kids that might wish to pray before they go and play versus a coach (employed by a public school) leading a prayer right before all the players head out onto the field. The first is after hours with a volunteer while the second is at a public school event lead by a public school employee. There have to be some boundaries--and there are, according to our constitution--in order maintain some sense of respect for religious freedom... (In my opinion, of course.)
2. Peer pressure can definitely be an issue--particularly when there is a particular religious majority. But, that's the whole reason why it's so terribly important that public schools can't be lax with upholding church and state separation, right? I mean, perhaps there is a Jewish kid on that team, or an agnostic kid, or a kid from a different Christian denomination than the majority. Having been there myself, the peer pressure can be intense, and my guess is that a kid in that situation would have felt too intimidated to say anything, leading the coach to assumed that they're all on the same page, and the cycle would continue. But, I believe that it's not the kid's job to speak up--sometimes that's just not possible. It's a school's duty to maintain policies that protect the rights of any of those kids.
Gah, sorry for the long reply! We are slowly but surely getting settled here in Germany. Living on the economy is *quite* refreshing, I must say! Sadie does miss all of her doggy friends, though! She still perks up her ears and runs to the window if I say Scrubby's name. It's too funny!
Hi Wendi- thanks for the follow-up! I think that in most situations, Christians reaching out to the community is completely acceptable and is overall great for society. The church I grew up in is particularly known for reaching out to the community and I grew up going to charity type events on pretty much a weekly basis. We would sew blankets for sick children, pass out meals, help elderly neighbors, etc. It was a great experience for me and my community.
However, I think the most important point here is that these children have been enrolled in a secular institution. Their parents did not approve a religious influence, and they should not be pressured in any way into accepting a religious influence. No matter how "optional" they make the meal, when you are on a team in high school, there are enormous pressures to conform to what the rest of the team is doing. If we were talking about hazing or something obviously bad, it would be easy to say that they should just not participate. But if a student was to say, "no I don't want to talk to them. I don't need their food. I'm not comfortable" the kid would be alienating himself against the team- especially if this is in a Christian area like the South.
These are not pressures that a child should have to face at school. To a Christian, it seems like there is no harm in something like this, but to a non-Christian, it can be a very uncomfortable experience. When you add in the pressures of your coach, teammates, and general high school peer pressures, it can be downright painful for a conscientious objector. There may be teams where all the kids are Christian, and this might not be a problem at all, but there can also be kids who feel pressured into calling themselves Christians but are still uncomfortable with a Christian influence at a school function. As a Mormon, I know how “mainstream” Christians saw us, and I would have been uncomfortable with something like this even though it was very similar to my belief system.
Further, imagine if there was a Muslim coach, making Islamic references during pep talks, and having his church provide meals regularly before games. Now imagine if this was happening in the Deep South. This might not bother you, but I would be shocked if there wasn’t community outrage over this. That is because people know that it isn’t just a meal, there is a subtle influence they are trying to push.
Overall, I think that there are ways for churches to reach out to the youth without stepping into public schools. Public schools are a place for proven science, providing historical perspective (and in this sense I think learning about religion is critical), and overall intellectual development. Sometimes I think that people forget that when our forefathers created the separation of church and state, they were not thinking of Sharia Law. Christianity throughout history has been a medium for great good and also great oppression. In order for our society to be truly free for all, we need to maintain a strict black and white line between church and state.
Holy cow- sorry for the long response. I only meant that to be a couple sentences. Thanks for the debate topic though! It’s great to hear the perspectives of people in different social circles.
P.S. I love your children! I hope you guys can make it back to the states soon --or me and Rob can make it out to the Azores :-D
To both Mimi and Sherrie, I think you both are on the exact same page, and I have to say that agree with you on basically everything you are saying. When I was in the South, churches were VERY involved with activities and no one ever complained about it. It was just never an issue. Coaches prayed before games, after games, etc. It was just seen as "how it was done."
I do however, agree, that if my child were attending a secular institution, I would feel completely uncomfortable with a religion outside of my own providing any messages contrary to the one I want to equip my children with.
My only slight "grey area" is the fact that I would appreciate a Muslim mosque or a mormon temple providing for my chidren opportunities and a chance to meet people that are different from them. I'm just not sure how you can properly ballance that.
Great discussion ladies!
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